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Torture and the Religious Right
Politics with a Liberal Bias |
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by The JavaScript Source
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posted by: surrogate (reply) post date: 05.31.07 (6:20 pm) It's really simple. Any person who says they're "Christian" and supports that sort of treatment will hopefully end up in whatever sort of hell they fear the worst. I'm ashamed my country would engage in such shit, and the America I love wouldn't. But then, maybe the America I love doesn't exist any more. Suggested reading: the letters sent between Jefferson and Adams during the twenty odd years after Jefferson left the White House, Adams having departed Washington earlier. posted by: PastorDave (reply) post date: 05.31.07 (7:27 pm) I think you are using the same approach to truth and values that you protest concerning the religious right. Such moral certainty can be disingenious. One can thump his chest, pound his Bible and polish his halo by dividing so much of life among right or wrong, good or bad, what Jesus would do or what Jesus would not do. The war in Iraq, like most of life, has drifted far from the ideal. Would Jesus use force and violence to obtain what cannot be gained through civil interaction? Would jesus kill a man simply because he had a different religion? Would Jesus pull a lever to hang Saddam Hussein? I have serious doubts about all of these. But the war has progressed/digressed to what it is. Now what? Given the context, given the situation, WWJD? That's not so easy to discern. It's not back-and-white; lots of shades of grey in there. For instance: Several fellow soldiers are kidnapped by al-quaida. A night or two later, one is found dead, having been severely tortured to death. In your hunt for the missing soldiers, you come upon an operative who has vital info that could quite possibly lead to the rescue of these soldiers. If torture has a good chance of bringing from this man vital and necessary information, would it be justified? Maybe some feminine undergarments placed upon his head, or water poured into his face, or loud rock music played incessantly into his cell? Would that be justified if it were to bring about the safety of a comerade? I'm not saying yes or no, but WWJD is not always so easily discerned. If you're honest. posted by: tfruge1 (reply) post date: 05.31.07 (7:41 pm) Reply to: PastorDave I understand your point in all of this but I have to disagree with you on one part. I believe that it IS more clean cut that you are making out to be. I think it is very simple, any type of torture, no matter what form it is in, should be considered inhuman and not practiced. An eye for an eye is not a good motto to live your life by. Would Jesus want us to do harm to others even if they did harm to ourselves or our loved ones? I don't think he would want that at all. My point in all of this is not to debate religion or WWJD. My point is that it is the religious right that is pushing for this kind of treatment be done to human being in order to get information. It's quite easy to see the hypocrasy here and that's all I'm trying to point out. A party running on morales that in fact has NONE. posted by: tfruge1 (reply) post date: 05.31.07 (7:41 pm) Reply to: surrogate I will have to try to get my hands on some of those papers. I bet they are pretty interesting. I know how you feel surrogate. Sometimes it almost feels like its a sad time to be an American especially when we hear of this sort of action being taken. More over, when people actually favor using this sort of inhumane treatment. Its like everything we fought for way back when is all getting reversed. posted by: PastorDave (reply) post date: 05.31.07 (7:54 pm) Reply to: tfruge1 Maybe I am giving you further understanding of the "twisted thinking" of those of us of the religious right? I hate the idea of war. But I don't think you can be a polite and politically correct warrior. At least, not for long. posted by: eraserhead667 (reply) post date: 05.31.07 (9:32 pm) I couldn't give a shit about what some mythological Jewish figure would do. What I know is that we live in a country where "morality" is about things that do not matter to the nation at large (ie. the sexual activity or recreational-chemical use of individuals being top on the list apparantly) and there is NO morality in business or in war, which are usually the same thing. Unless of course it's somebody doing something WE don't like. Torture is not only wrong, it DOESN'T WORK on anything resmbling a consistent basis. As long as we think "God is on our side" and we live in "the greatest country in the world" (which, let's face it, is a bit like being the prettiest Denny's waitress, it doesn't mean a fucking thing) we are much more ready to minimize the worth of people who aren't us, particularly if they are brown and sitting on top of a shitload of money-making potential. Whether one agrees with the war or not, I find it unfathomable that anyone would at this point defend the arrogant shitheads who started it. I see Bush is still fond of telling anyone who questions his methodology that they are in effect supporting "the terrorists". Fuck him. I have respect for real "conservatives", and even for religious people who have some kind of logic and consistency. I have none for these fucks. posted by: sjmclean (reply) post date: 06.01.07 (1:25 pm) You are a Republican ... Did I guess right? posted by: tfruge1 (reply) post date: 06.01.07 (2:53 pm) Reply to: sjmclean Lol. I really hope that was sarcasm! posted by: auntconi (reply) post date: 06.01.07 (6:30 pm) oops, excuse me! i didn't mean to interrupt! posted by: heavyarms (reply) post date: 06.04.07 (7:16 am) Define "torture." If you mean physical torture, car batteries to genitals, flogging, bamboo shoots under fingernails, I'm against that. If you mean the activity that the media and Democrats have come to define as "torture" (panties on head, barking dogs, no Korans in their cells, bread and water for meals) I say go for it. |
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